tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post1062684189378382276..comments2024-03-14T10:07:59.760-07:00Comments on American Alpine Institute - Climbing Blog: The Figure-Eight Follow-ThroughErin-Leigh Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10781785451497618508noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-85734320183348148032020-06-09T20:58:06.665-07:002020-06-09T20:58:06.665-07:00Unknown #07380391450623524252:
RopeLab says there...Unknown #07380391450623524252:<br /><br />RopeLab says there's no difference in strength between the two variations, and no difference in ease of untying. I'm not sure if the ease of untying is correct, but you should never be anywhere near enough load that a 10% difference in strength matters anyway.<br /><br />Jason Martin:<br /><br />If there's a new version of this articl, you should link to it at the top so people can find it, or just remove this one and redirect to the new one.<br /><br />Maybe you mean http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2015/07/the-figure-eight-follow-through.html , but that seems to be identical, just with a different date.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-22438606279037000282016-05-25T06:38:19.386-07:002016-05-25T06:38:19.386-07:00I haven't messed with this article because it ...I haven't messed with this article because it has been re-edited and updated. Search "The Figure-Eight Follow-Through, American Alpine Institute Blogger" and you will find the updated version of this article.<br /><br />Thanks for all of your comments.<br /><br />JasonJason Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00545776792926716502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-28619330853971835582016-05-24T11:27:47.113-07:002016-05-24T11:27:47.113-07:00My apologies if this has been beaten to death, but...My apologies if this has been beaten to death, but I'm not seeing any comments identifying the traditional or common safety/stopper knot to the (doubled) figure eight follow-through (or rewoven or retrace) as a "half (of a) double (or doubled) fisherman's" knot. <br /><br />I am surprised that a website with such a lofty title and apparent reputation as American Alpine Institute would risk losing credibility on incorrect knot names, as well as poor editing (an extra "is" in the text, if I remember correctly) and not appearing to care to make a correction over the last three years? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-76335738448855781622016-02-09T11:33:41.246-08:002016-02-09T11:33:41.246-08:00An important observation, taken from P.49 of Life ...An important observation, taken from P.49 of Life on a Line version 2 (LOAL2) the caving rescue manual: "The Figure-8 is simple at first impression, and tying it is trivial – simply an overhand knot with a half-turn before passing the rope through the twist. The problem is that the Figure-8 can be tied backwards, resulting in a loss of up to 10% of the strength. Surprisingly few people know this, so you can guarantee that at least 50% of the knots you will encounter are incorrect."<br /><br />The correct way to tie the knot, when used as a harness tie-in, is that the standing part of the rope (the bit that leads away to your anchor and is going to take your weight) should make the <b>lower</b> of the two loops - i.e. the one closest to the climber. The reason for this is that the other loop (the one made by the working, or free, end of the rope) then acts as a cushion between the most heavily loaded loop and the main body of the knot - stopping it biting into the diagonally crossing strands and generally jamming tight. You can easily prove by experimenting that the knot is massively easier to untie after heavy loading when tied this way :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07380391450623524252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-10663383211539059042015-05-07T15:27:15.036-07:002015-05-07T15:27:15.036-07:00Tim, Re the figure-8 yosemite tuck:
I looked at y...Tim, Re the figure-8 yosemite tuck:<br /><br />I looked at your yosemite tucks and in the first instance (no wrap around the standing end [aka haul/load side]), if the knot rolls it does indeed become a slip knot.<br /><br />In the second instance where you do a wrap around the standing end, if the knot rolls it becomes the first knot. If it rolls again it becomes a slip knot.<br /><br />In reality if you roll the knot it's likely it could happen twice!! A better idea is to do 2 half hitches [commonly incorrectly called a fisherman's knot] and then do the tuck. No chance of rolling and the running end is out of the way.<br /><br />I would love to hear your view on a half-hitch retrace (competition finish) as a tie off. Basically a waterknot on a bight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-76513300476115311692015-04-01T10:57:17.376-07:002015-04-01T10:57:17.376-07:00I was under the understanding that a barrel knot h...I was under the understanding that a barrel knot has the crossing on the outside and a fisherman's knot has it on the inside.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-1036926368986949362014-11-01T13:38:22.550-07:002014-11-01T13:38:22.550-07:00Using completely incorrect names for knots is one ...Using completely incorrect names for knots is one of my pet peeves- especially when you're 'correcting' such a mistake with something equally incorrect!<br /><br />As someone else pointed out, the common 'stopper knot' used used after the figure-8 follow-through is not a fisherman of any kind, even though most climbers I know incorrectly call it such. He is right that it's a strangle-knot, basically a double-overhand tied around the standing end of the rope. <br /><br />I think referring to it as a 'double overhand', while not as precise, would be more or less correct, certainly much better than calling it a fisherman's. <br /><br />When tied as a stopper knot at the ends of ropes for rappelling (and this is probably the most common knot for that purpose), a double-overhand is correct.<br /><br />http://www.animatedknots.com/doubleoverhand/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com&Categ=boatingDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11854906050525170139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-86249545667373861542013-05-29T08:25:58.735-07:002013-05-29T08:25:58.735-07:00Muscle Beach your comment is slightly mis-leading....Muscle Beach your comment is slightly mis-leading. If I understand your question it's regarding the tuck which is after the follow through. In the first photo the tail from the followed through strand is folded down and tucked back into the knot. This method creates the situation where the knot can roll. The Figure-eight follow through is not normally prone to rolling.<br /><br />In the second picture, where you wrap the tail around the rope before tucking it and keep the tail with the strands coming from the bight you avoid creating the instance where the knot can roll. I believe it has to do with the position of the tail more than the size of the knot that keeps it from rolling. In the more dangerous instance, the tuck makes the tail into a ball of sorts that allows the knot to roll over it. That said you can avoid this problem by not using the tuck at all. Tim Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07074218942905471729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-2324537014330633902013-05-29T07:38:15.139-07:002013-05-29T07:38:15.139-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tim Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07074218942905471729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-85539251037454135252013-05-28T22:48:16.872-07:002013-05-28T22:48:16.872-07:00While this article says the Figure 8 follow throug...While this article says the Figure 8 follow through with an extra wrap before the follow through is better it does not say why. I'm interested to hear the explanation or rational behind this idea. I'm guessing it just makes the knot harder to roll as there is a bigger knot to roll over. Also to wrap the extra wrap it seems the loaded wouldn't be on the bottom but second from the bottom perhaps making the knot more prone to rolling if another video I've seen on this subject is taken at face value... thanks.Muscle Beachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-57372592232474369212012-09-24T21:51:43.533-07:002012-09-24T21:51:43.533-07:00Note that both the 2nd and last videos show fig.8 ...Note that both the 2nd and last videos show fig.8 eyeknots that are NOT perfectly dressed --the turns around the "main line" (not the eye side) go out of symmetric dressing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352166344614826568.post-80948732042354019272012-09-24T21:40:33.331-07:002012-09-24T21:40:33.331-07:00You write "... but names it incorrectly ... d...You write "... but names it incorrectly ... double fisherman's knot but is a single fisherman's knot" :<br />WRONG --it's a >>strangle knot<< (which is a particular form of double overhand knot (as is the fisherman's/anchor bend)).<br /><br />Both the double & single fisherman's "knots" are end-2-end knots (the latter with a single overhands, not strangles, as components).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com